Due to abuse, the discussion feature has been shut down.
Any questions, comments, critiques, and/or concerns should be emailed to:
Saskboy: saskboy [at] hotmail [dot] com
Northern BC Dipper
Thanks for your understanding.
Continued from Part 1.
mens rights and anti feminism are two seperate issues. The same as woemn rights and feminism are two seperate issue. Come on now, a human being does not have to have a feminist ideology. The majority of woemn do not hold the traditional feminist perspective. Do you hold the same contempt for Anti-gun advocates.
I agree with none, definately a agenda of combative ‘prancing’ feminist fundamentalists.
Saskboy, I was directing my question at Danigirl in response to her accusation and that she said the feminist award would be inclusive. I figure one should have both if one wants to provide that point of view. I find it no less ridiculous to have anti-feminist as a feminist award. Seeing their posts about white men and hate blog awards just confirms how ridiculous the suggestion was to have a feminist award.
What is the real problem, here? I just read the entire thread, and I don’t understand the resistance to a Feminist category.
Some ball-bouncing baby blue blogger objects to a Feminist category and she’s got everyone running around like blind cats in a room full of rocking chairs! Congratulations, sweetie! You just got more attention in one swoop than your blog will get in all the years you’ve been on the blogosphere!
So, once again, what’s the real problem? Too many catergories, maybe? How onerous it is to have to wade through all those blogs in all those categories! You have to vote for stuff you’ve never heard of and wouldn’t read otherwise!
In reality, saskboy and others, are you limited to a specific number of categories? Is there some real benefit to keeping the number of categories low? Is there some life-or-death reason for your not including Feminist blogs as a category?
Then why not a Liblogs category? Why not a Blogging Dippers category? What about a SWINE category? You can’t give everybody a category.
“In reality, saskboy and others, are you limited to a specific number of categories? Is there some real benefit to keeping the number of categories low? Is there some life-or-death reason for your not including Feminist blogs as a category?”
It’s logistics, the more categories the more graphics and nominations we have to type and handle. At already ~26, that’s a lot of work for people not getting paid, (and even spending money) who try and make this an awards that highlights the diversity of blogs in Canada. We’d like everyone to be proud to participate. I think it’s unfortunate that some people would be happier boycotting, when we’re making an effort to be welcoming to genres of blogs that don’t have an applicable category already.
Thanks all for the very inspiring reminder and vivid illustration of why I loathe and despise ‘Awards Shows’ of any kind.
Frank, I normally avoid TV award shows now, but I had hoped that like last year’s CBAs, it would be an excellent opportunity for many bloggers to discover other styles and topics of blogs, by sharing a single site for a common event among them. An online convention of sorts, is the idea. A useful, varied, and even ranked categorized blogroll at the end of it all, as well.
Okay. It boils down to the amount of work the volunteers have to do. And to follow up, I have two observations:
(1) Feminists comprise a rather large segment of the population. I see no reason they should not have their own category, since there are a lot of feminist blogs.
(2) I have no idea why there is a “Local Blogs” category. Local to whom? Lots of people don’t live in Winnipeg, so why would they vote for a Winnipeg blog? This looks to be simply a mechanism for counting the number of blog readers from a particular area, and we already have a census in this country.
So why not take out the “Local Blogs” category and put “Feminist Blogs” in its place?
1) Feminists comprise a large segment of the real world population. There are many blogs (Canadian even) devoted to talking about feminism. Are there enough to justify adding another category, which is also to the chagrin of a few vocal commenters (so far) and to add more work for the Operators, just so a few of them can claim they are going to boycott us and any changes we make will go for naught? Plus, the majority of feminist blogs I’ve seen “girlcotting” us, actually fit well in a political blog category, or the already modified (in an apparently failed attempt to compromise) gender/sexual issues category (where feminism is one of several explicit, non-mutually exclusive entry requirements!).
2) Local blogs cover issues of only/mostly a local nature, a subpopulation of Canada. I like this category because it lends directly to the goal I stated before of uncovering diverse and otherwise isolated blogging genres. The side effect is counting their voting readers. The purpose is to get their names known across the country.
“… blogs that write about GBLT issues, feminist/women’s issues, and another other Sexual/Gender Issues are eligible for this category…”
Isn’t the mention of “feminist/women’s issues”
redundant and the repeativedness unneccesary. Must the reader really be educated that the word “women” is infact an example of the word gender. Perhaps then there is a need to include Men as an assurance that your reader knows precisely what the word gender explicitly describes.
Nowhere else in the categories does such redunance of extra expression take place.
“…Feminists comprise a large segment of the real world population…”
Really, you sound like you know that for a fact, please, post the credible data to prove this.
I dont believe for a minute that the majority of Canadian women hold traditional feminist beliefs, the women nowadays are or have learnt to be much more perceptive.
“Are there enough to justify adding another category…?”
Well, judging from der sturm-und-drang in opposition to the idea of a feminist blog category, I think so, yes. Feminists are not necessarily political. Nor are they necessarily female or feminine. Not are they necessarily all concerned with gender issues.
Feminism is a set of philosophies, not just a cookie-cutter word than some people find convenient to fling around in order to signify their scorn for other with whom they disagree on social issues. It encompasses all the above issues and more. And not all who call themselves feminists agree with one another, either.
Yes, you can find feminists in a lot of other categories. But you can also find conservatives in a lot of other categories, too; so why do we have a separate category for conservatives?
The blue baby who first objected to the feminist category is on the warpath against feminism. She sees feminism as an afront to her control-centered existence. She is using the CBA as an arena in which to wage her personal vendetta.
Chimera, aren’t you being a bit judgemental of blue baby. Maybe your abit insecure of yourself and have to resort to hasty evalutions of others seperate from your observation and own ideologies.
“… OK, so your two examples of groups interested in “men’s issues not tied to feminism” include a group with “women” in the title, and another with “feminists” in the name? I don’t think I even have to bother consulting with my co-Operators to say, “Your appeal for an explicitly anti-feminist or men’s issues category is DENIED…”
Small caps is fine Saskboy, I dont have a problem deciphering the message, unlike the others who have a difficult time understanding the “simple” word gender.
My whole point was that mens issue encompass a wide variety of interests, not excluding variences of feminism. More appropriately the feminist ideoloigies and doctrines are vacant from mens issues.
This is really ridiculous, I intialy though it was oversight but its not. Too bad you cant see where I’m comming from.
“Chimera, aren’t you being a bit judgemental of blue baby.”
Nope. She repeatedly says so on her blog. she’s not at all shy about her animosity towards feminism and feminists.
“…Nope. She repeatedly says so on her blog. she’s not at all shy about her animosity towards feminism and feminists…”
And… thats a bad thing?!?
I didn’t say it was bad.
You asked if I wasn’t being too hard on her.
The answer is no.
I didnt say you said it was bad. I was asking if it (her perceptions) were bad.
I alluded that you were being judgemental, primarily because of this comment, ” She sees feminism as an afront to her control-centered existence”, and you replied you weren’t because of her animosity towards feminism.
Feminism was created a division in society and to break up the family. Dont think so? Look around and see what the result of feminism has achieved, and I dont mean the right to vote or equal pay in the work force. I mean look beyond the talking points and how this ideology has been used as a convienant patsy. It started with good intentions but has ended with disasterious results.
The war between the sexes got bloodier and harmorny seems may miles away. It insights conflict and confusion within society and amongst discourse.
Geeze. A division in society.
Soooooooooooo. what your saying is….that we should just return to the days of yore? what? Go back to ownership? Do tell.
I think the thing is, if people want to live their lives in the shadow of misogynist religious doctrines and be treated as chattel? They should continue on. Thats perfectly cool, as long as its a choice.
Problem? They don’t feel the same way about everyone else. They expect all wimmen to accept the same thing. Nuh uh.
This was just a request for a feminism category. Its exploded into this, mostly because of the wishy washy waffling and completely obtuse reaction from some “progressives”.
This has been resolved. In spite of these theatrics, and its has also increased OUR resolve. Thanks. 🙂
Pale, as in pale reasoning, this wishy washy waffling was just too terribley tempting for you to immediately ignore.
A division in society, yep, look around and analys our society and then analyse our legislation, then our educational facilities and most other mechanism of the engineered world. Both eyes open though.
I dont want humanity to turn back the clocks to a time when the woman was not allowed to vote or a time when she wasnt considered equal. Isnt there a middle ground between the extreme of misandry and misongyny, Sure there is, most cant see it or rationlize it because it hasnt been sold in that package. Because I dont agree with the feminist philosophy means I go way bak to a time of inequality. Thats a feminist halmark response… long outdated, but yet influencial to the weak uneducated minds. I would like pure equallity, where BOTH man and women can live in harmony in both work and family.
It depends on your personal definition? Doesnt it? If someone chooses to stay home with the kids and do their own thing. Thats ok. As long as they choose it.
But others don’t want to do that.
Now, you can argue that “your” way is best, I disagree.
Choice to steer your own destiny? or choice to accept religious dogma written by men.
Whatever floats your boat.
How ’bout Best Whiner’s Blog and Dumbest Comments Thread.
“…or choice to accept religious dogma written by men…”
Turned out it was men who changed the law to be more equal. LOL. Doubt your gonna put that in a gender negative light.
I was simply advancing that equality has to be truly equal for both genders, it snot, itys favouring to women, if you disagree with that then everyone is entitled to their own obscured opinion. The teeter tauter effect is not the answer for equality.
Loiuse, how about getting back in the kitchen!
Running, what is your problem? If you want to argue your personal brand of semantics, why don’t you do a post on it over at your place?
Saskboy, the very presence of so much opposition to the idea does suggest to me that feminists would do well with their own blog category. Obviously, they are hitting exposed nerves all over the place.
…and the same can be said for the opposition, with each action there is an equal or greater reaction.
… and I’m not the only one arguing.
are you the moderator or are you just reacting to the overwhelming desire to grumble something… feel any better?
well folks its been alot of fun
Good luck and I know with the insight and intellegence found on this blog that the winner will certainly not give a flying @$#%
bye bye 🙂
Just one more…
“…Obviously, they are hitting exposed nerves all over the place…”
Chimera, Hitler and his brownshits hit millions of exposed nerves, planning on giving the nazi appologists their own little category?
…are you still in the kitchen?
Have you people lost your minds?
Why don’t I just chime in and insist on a “Best Left-Handed, Dyslexic Homosexual Atheist” category, (I’m a shoo-in).
Unless there is a category for bitchiest comments by bloggers I don’t see too many in this thread who deserve an award at all. Get over it and be happy if somebody nominated you for anything at all.
Actually, Bruce, the sad part of all this is, there are some in this thread (and elsewhere at B’N’R, the epicenter for all this brouhahah) who do deserve recognition.
“Turned out it was men who changed the law to be more equal. LOL. Doubt your gonna put that in a gender negative light. ”
Awwww. actually it was years of fighting by women for some semblance of equality. Still not there yet. But of course that doesnt fit into your scenario. Does it?
Carry on. Bizzaro world according to someone who hasn’t a grasp on reality.
The reality of women every day.
In a recent US blogging awards site the best they could do to accommodate LGBT and feminist bloggers was to heap them along with anything that passes as progressive under the category of “liberal”. Good to see that you’re so much more enlightened here.
Chimera pointed out the obvious. There are more than enough candidates for best feminist blog to merit its own category just as there are enough LGBT blogs to deserve their own category. Hey, if there are enough anti-choice/pro-abstinence sites to merit their own category, I say go for it.
Well, I think we heard enough in regard to the feminist category here.
The operators shall make and announce a decision on the matter before the week is out.
If there are any other concerns about the CBAs, we’d like to hear them.
Ok, if you want to believe that feminism was created to soley bring equality to women than I’m not the one deserving a reality check and if you believe that equality for women has not surpassed equality for men than I must be living on a different planet.
Think about it for a minute, feminism created the ability to tax the other half of the population. Isn’t that interesting and the same players profiting from this venture are the same ones who controled the presses. They sustained and created feminism, without media feminism would have never risen, with or without CIA asset Gloria Stienem. Now that both mom and dad are out working whose raising thew children, certainly not the parents. If this isn’t an outright attack on family than I dont know what is.
Feminism, through the Status of Women and LEAF and NAWL have been successful in influencing law to give women the upper hand when considering child custody cases, this is undebatable.
Feminism has been successful in awarding women more linient sentences than comparred to a man for the same crime.
Feminism has achieved the monopoly in the Domestic Violence industry capitalizing on all funding for DV through Women Shelters, however, StatCan studies dictate near identical number of men and women victims of DV.
Google Erin Prizzy and Senator Ann Cooles and see what these past feminists have to say aboutthe movement and doctrines in general.
Oh, and another thing, thanks for the guidance to some absolutely wonderful blogs found in the award categories, simply enjoyable reads.
“…Well, I think we heard enough in regard to the feminist category here…”
Ummm… its still moving independant of the thrashing…
The brouhaha, if one actually takes a few minutes to wade through the posts and look at the names of the posters, has been created by SUZANNE and her swarm. In trying to placate her unreasonable demands, the Ops managed to piss off not just one, but about a dozen very good bloggers, all of whom are feminists.
Denigrating feminists in this way is akin to participating in the backlash Faludi wrote about: the Ops are unwilling to stand up to the backlash the extreme radical right wing has delivered here despite the fact that the extremists have failed to provide coherent and logical arguments against a Best Feminist Blog category.
(As for the conversation at B’n’R, that was escalated by commenters here and by a certain individual who turned up there to push and provoke even though asked to stop on several occasions. On the playground they call it bullying.)
I continue to stand by my decision to pull my blog from the LGBT category. I have explained my reasoning for that as well as for the invitation to others to pull theirs. I refuse to play in a sandbox where the boys make bad rules and refuse to create meaningful change so that recognition could be afforded to a significant segment of Canada’s population — a segment which has fostered the development of great change for women and children and men across the country.
I challenge anyone to show me anything that extreme right wing radicals such as SUZANNE and her band have done that has been even remotely as positive for this country.
Runner, do you have anything to say that isn’t regurgitated from Henry Makow and the He Man Woman Haters Club?
Scott, that is the sad part. I knew I was asking for trouble when I posted here and I know a lot of people deserve recognition, this is why we have these awards events in the first place.
But after reading through the comments that have expanded into two threads bitch slap sessions now, and given that I have my own opinions that I would like to share with some people, but this is why I don’t seek world domination, fags like me know better than that. I could shut my down tomorrow and still have a good life.
Then of course there’s nothing like posting a reply to someone and realizing you spelled his name wrong, My apologies Scott, as a McDonald who is often a Mac to many people.
Take it to your personal blogs
Comments will be shut down until the morning; hopefully at that time people will want to submit other concerns not being examined by the operators.
What about Canada’s law blogs?
There are good listings at http://blawgsearch.justia.com/category.aspx?catid=1422&sortby=popularity&popmode=month
Would the “Best Media/Celebrity Blog ” include ‘alternative media ‘ as well or is it restricted to traditional media (MSM)?
Northern BC Dipper // December 18, 2007 at 10:25 pm said: “Well, I think we heard enough in regard to the feminist category here. ”
Is that comment intended to be funny or deliberately offensive? Since it’s neither amusing nor witty, then I have to surmise that you meant it to be insulting.
The original requests for a ‘Best Feminist Blog’ were presented in a civil manner.
In response to CBA organizers insisting that Feminists Blogging does not merit a category of its own, emotions have run high especially since it appears from Danigirl’s comment that the question had been raised in your own discussions regarding categories – and dismissed. None of the reasons that you have used to justify such an exclusion are plausible, in my opinion.
Though it does seem as if the attacks from BBW and her league of trolls have effectively cowed CBA organizers.
I am a feminist, my father and my mother were feminists, my daughter is a feminist and my son-in-law is a feminist and a feminist lover. And our practice of equality and respect between women and men, our discussions about making our society a better place for everyone, that would benefit even anti-feminists like BBW and SDA are informed by feminist principles of justice and fairness.
I read a great number of dynamic Canadian blogs and threads of feminist thought, vision and inspiration run through them.
We are feminists in the way we chose to raise our children (if and when we chose to have children). We are feminists in our political choices. We are feminists in the social issues we choose to support. We are feminists in our cultural expressions: theatre, poetry, music, photography, humour, dance, and more. We are feminists in the way we support the members of our community.
So I’m confounded, how can you – the organizers of CBA – be so hostile regarding a request that was originally presented as nicely as one can imagine. You are accusing feminists of being aggressive and spiteful. Look back to your responses to the request and consider how you used your power as organizers to dismiss and dishonour us.
Geez, dBO, if feminist bitches keep whinging about the lack of a category, they’re going to have an aneurysm coming up with new forms of punishment… http://nbcdipper.ca/2007/12/18/tactics/
And then there’ll be blood everywhere and the antifeminists will bitch about the carpet.
DBO and Berlin,
The request to have a feminist category was not offered in a nice manner. Looking back, as you suggest, the initial poster used threats and intimidation as manipulation tools and this should not be considered as a ‘nice’ or civil approach. To allude that the approach was ‘nice’ is pure subterfuge and rather telling of feminist rational.
Personaly I’m not a feminist, my sister is not one and neither is my mother or grandmothers, my father and friends are not feminists, my children and their cat and hamster are not feminists either. There is a whole other world of cultural expression without the theme of feminism, I dare say that there are many with the theme of humanity and divine harmony. Theres morre to the world than just through the goggles of feminism.
As of late, feminism has been shown to have a dramatic negative impact on society and to the male human specie of this planet.
To create a feminist category of it own would show how feminism is alone, seperate from the rest. Very telling.
“…Runner, do you have anything to say that isn’t regurgitated from Henry Makow and the He Man Woman Haters Club?…”
Some of what I said is also believed by Henry Makow and thousands of others,. Have no idea what the haters club is – are you a member? I have sated a great deal more that isn’t covered by Makow.
Thanks for the response, have anything else irrelevant you would like to throw out there?
“The request to have a feminist category was not offered in a nice manner. ”
here is the very first mention of the issue from berlynn:
“I have a concern. There’s no Best Feminist Blog.”
runner, no need to lie.
runner, you aren’t a feminist, as you state. but there are a population of feminist bloggers on the canadian scene. it doesn’t matter if you read them, like them, agree with them or what not. they exist and they are a unique element of the blogging populace. the invective here started with suzie all-caps. the “drama” that is a result is in response to the vituperative tone of suzie and yourself and a few others. however unfortunate the outcome, the blame lies with suzie all-caps and the waffling ops.
sometimes, for every inaction there is a just and angry reaction. the ops of the awards gave suzie all-caps a tacit veto. there is unlikely to be a compromise solution to a compromised situation. cc has already stated his disinterest in the awards for his own reasons, as a co-blogger at canadiancynic i can’t see hanging with this charade. so with apologies to those that nominated us, please pull us off the ballot.
Yeah, FB (that’s for “feminist bitches”, or maybe it should be UFB for “uppity”), if only you had put on a little lipstick and batted your eyelashes nicely, daddy might have considered your request.
Maybe next year.
DeBeauxos said, Is that comment intended to be funny or deliberately offensive? Since it’s neither amusing nor witty, then I have to surmise that you meant it to be insulting..
Get off your high horse and suck it up princess.
Interesting idea. I’ll see if the other Operators think Best Law Blog is something we want to add this year.
I could see it possibly fitting into here, although it’s a genre I’m completely unfamiliar with aside from hearing of your blog once, and Michael Geist’s blog.
Oooh here’s some goodies by Skdadl about the organizers of this forum:
For some reason, that phrase — “unacceptable to some” — rots my socks more than anything more openly sexist that I’ve read.
It just rilly rilly gets my blood boiling.
Y’know, I had almost calmed down before I read that patronizing, patriarchal, pompous, fatuous, flatulent, flaccid self-important crap … but now I’m mad again. Even before I read Prole, I had the same reaction: NBCD thinks he’s our Daddy! And he has to scold us! We have been bad girls, and we’re going to bed without supper!
When teh boyz organize, that’s serious politics, but when grils speak up for themselves, well, that’s just rude and ungrateful, and head boy has to teach them a lesson. Screw that.
Nobody liberates anyone else. People liberate themselves, and sometimes they are pretty uppity as they do it. There’s a lesson that the frat boyz are gonna learn. Pompous twits.
Yes folks, this is what feminists are all about. They’re just as bad as chauvanists.
RUNNING: “Would the “Best Media/Celebrity Blog ” include ‘alternative media ‘ as well or is it restricted to traditional media (MSM)?”
The answer was a click away…
All blogs that write about media (TV, film), those professional bloggers from the media, and/or celebrities are eligible for this category.
If you write MOSTLY about TV, film, radio, (ie. Mass Media) then you don’t have to be a celebrity or pro-blogger to enter.
Hmm, I wonder if it needs to include writing about Blog Media mostly as well. I can’t think of any Canadian blog media writers, but perhaps there are many?
I must say that I’m surprised and disappointed by the strength of feeling here on this discussion board. Let’s not forget that, at the end of the day, this is just an awards show. It’s not meant to be taken seriously. It’s just an end-of-year celebration of the Canadian blogosphere as a whole, regardless of political affiliation or lack thereof.
In the end, not everybody is going to get everything they want, so let’s focus on what we have and enjoy these awards for what they are — just a bit of fun.
It has been stated here, and elsewhere, that I did not allow enough time between making the request and pulling my nomination and calling for support. To correct that lie, I give you the truth:
I see that revisionist history is alive and well over here now. To correct the record with the facts, yet again:
Berlynn // December 14, 2007 at 12:03 am
I have a concern. There’s no Best Feminist Blog.
Berlynn // December 17, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Thanks for the nomination, Deanna, but I withdraw my blog from this category. It is for those writing on Gender Issues and I do not do that. I try to bring a feminist analysis to uranium mining and nuclear politics.
Berlynn // December 17, 2007 at 3:33 pm
I stand by my withdrawal and will call on all feminists and pro-feminists to do likewise.
More than two full days had passed from me making the original request to calling for support from others. In the blogosphere, that’s a lot of time.
You missed one:
Berlynn // December 17, 2007 at 12:52 pm (edit)
Good grief! Saskboy, please move to Alberta.
Your second, third and fifth posts on the issue were a threat to me, then two calls for a boycott.
They may teach negotiating classes at the UofR if you’re interested. 🙂
(Edit: What I just wrote here was not an appropriate way to further negotiations.)
That kinda looks like the 17th to me.
Wow. That was painful to read through. There’s a few minutes of my life I wish I could get back.
As Monty Python’s King Arthur said of Camelot when deciding not to go there, “’tis a silly place.”
You kidding me Berlynn?
I remember events going like this:
I put in the compromise that by reading the comments, everybody was happy by.
I go to sleep.
I wake up. Boycott!
How is that enough time to have a discussion.
By the way, Northern BC Dipper, I want to thank you for so generously providing an outlet for the illiterati, namely runting and none.
And just in case you happen to be trolling by, none, here is one ‘goody’ from B’n’R you forgot to quote.
“It’s most illuminating isn’t it, how the CBA organizers are allowing BBW’s pet goons to trash feminist commentators and Bread’n’Roses. How clever of them – they don’t have to resort or stoop to such tactics themselves.
So now saskboy, Northern BC Dipper and the others have their very own little Klansmen – running & none – to do their dirty work for them. Way to go.”
By the way, Northern BC Dipper, I want to thank you for so generously providing an outlet for the illiterati, namely runting and none.
That why I shut off comments temporarily a few days ago, because people are abusing this thread, which is meant to provide suggestions in regards to the CBAs.
Klansmen? Wow, talk about jumping off the beam with that accusation. Wait, who were the ones who were putting forth racist posts about white men? Not I and I certainly wouldn’t be considered a racist to oppose such hateful words by yourself or anyone else, all political views included.
Like I said earlier, this is a perfect example of what feminists are saying about anyone who oppose their views. Just like chauvinism. Just as aggressive, just as mean.
By a decision of the operators, as this comments thread has been abused too much, it will be shut down for good.
If you would like to contact the operators of the CBA, we ask you to please e-mail us.
Thanks for your understanding